Flemish "Lamentation": many copies, where's the original?

Schlosser, from Germany, sells on 27 March 2020 as Lot 3 an "Early Netherlandish Master, 2nd half of the 16th century" Lamentation, estimated at 4,500 Euro.

This composition exists in many versions, but there doesn't seem to be an actual original. It does hark back to a Joos van Cleve composition now in the Städel in Frankfurt, as the RKD notes, but some intermediate step is missing to explain how all these poorer copies made the exact same changes (e.g. in the position of the head of the Virgin).

Most copies are somewhat closer to the Cleve in the figure of the Magdalen on the right: in the work for sale, this has been modernized somewhat, and perhaps this version must be dated closer to 1600 than the others.

The two anonymous versions from the RKD show how much closer these are to the one for sale than to the Cleve. The first one was sold at Sotheby's in 2010, the second one was with art dealer Van der Lubbe in The Hague in 1941

Another version was for sale with Promenade Antiques, as "circle of Van Cleve, ca. 1530". All these versions have a "table" or similar in front of the Christ, with elements of the Passion; the one or sale has lost this aspect.

A very nice version was sold at Sotheby's in 2012 for $8,750 Euro, good value for money there. it is very close to the two RKD examples, but better executed.

The one for sale will probably struggle to meet expectations, as it is not the best copy, and slightly later than hoped for.

"Late 17th century French School" looks like a follower of the Master of the Parrot

Conan (the Barbarian?), from France, sells on 14 September 2019 a "French School, late 17th century" triptych of the Holy Family, estimated at 8,000 to 10,000 Euro.

The work has no elements as far as I can see which would date it so late, or which would make it French: it looks to be painted by a follower of the Master of the Parrots (or of the two stylistically closely related other masters, the Master of the Female Half Lengths and the Master of the Prodigal Son).

The origin of the composition seems to be a work by Joos van Cleve (via RKD). The version here is likely a third-hand version, after a work by the Master of the Parrot.

Comparable work by the Master of the Female Half-Lengths

Value of this work should be around 3,000 Euro, not the estimated 8,000. 

UPDATE: the work is on 30 January 2021 again for sale, with Berard et Peron in Lyon. The description is even further off, now it is said to be a Florentine School, 16th century! The estimate of 4,500 to 5,000 Euro is at least more realistic.

"Antwerp School" painting is known from one other version described as "Style of Joos van Cleve"

Brussels Art Auctions, from belgium, sells on 5 June 2018 an "Antwerp School, 16th - 17th century" Virgin and Child, a small panel (25 by 20 cm) estimated at 2,500 to 3,500 Euro.

Another version of the same composition was sold at Sotheby's Amsterdam in 2004 for 21,600 Euro. It had nearly the same dimensions, but was visually more appealing (both better painted and with more, interesting, details). That work was attributed to the Master with the Parrot (active 1500-1530), but the RKD has since reattributed it to "Style of Joos van Cleve" (1485-1540).

The works seem related to the older "Madonna and Child with the Parrot" by Martin Schongauer (copy from the Met shown). But the two paintings probably derive from an unknown or lost work by some Flemish master of the early 16th century (I don't think the better version from the RKD is the original).

Attributing the work for sale to one painter specifically will be hard, it doesn't seem to be good enough to be bysome recognised artist, but it still is an old and rather attractive work and should easily fetch the estimate.